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In the last episode of the year, we reflect on the meaning of peace during the Christmas season. Patrick asks a thought-provoking question about the Christmas story from Luke Chapter 2: Did the heavenly host's proclamation of "peace on earth" truly hold meaning, given that Jesus's birth did not end wars or family conflicts? Tune in to hear excerpts from this year’s podcast guests answering this question and prepare for a season of reflection and hope. We’ll take a short break for the holidays and return in January with new episodes.
Timestamps
[00:02:56] Julie Rose on Christ as the prince of peace.
[00:05:47] Thomas McConkie on Christ’s love as an omega point.
[00:8:50] Annie Waddoups on grace for our imperfect actions.
[00:10:19] Emile Kayitare on forgiveness and reconciliation in Rwanda.
[00:13:32] Michalyn Steele on finding peace in weekly practices.
[00:15:18] David Pulsipher on finding hope in Christ.
[00:16:27] Sarah Perkins on friendship across intractable divides.
[00:20:25] Chad Ford on active peace building with Jesus.
Transcript
Jennifer Thomas: Welcome to the Proclaim Peace Podcast. I'm Jennifer Thomas.
(00:06-02:52) Patrick Mason: And I'm Patrick Mason. And this is the podcast where we apply principles of the gospel and read the Book of Mormon to become better peacemakers.
Hi, everyone, and Merry Christmas. A quick show note, we're going to take a couple of weeks off for the holidays. We hope that you and yours are also celebrating with your loved ones as we do so as well. And so we'll be back in January with new episodes.
But before we leave for the rest of the year, Jen and I were thinking about what message we wanted to leave you with at this time of year. And we figured that we could do no better than to follow the advice of the Book of Mormon prophet Abinadi from Mosiah chapter 15, and to use this platform to publish peace. Specifically, to speak of him that bringeth good tidings, that is the founder of peace, yea, even the Lord, who has redeemed his people, yea, him who has granted salvation unto his people.
So this past Sunday in my congregation, in my ward, I taught the lesson to the priest quorum for the 16 and 17 year old boys. And the theme was Christmas. And so we read from Luke chapter two, the Christmas story in the Bible. And specifically we read about how the angel appeared to the shepherds and then was joined by the heavenly multitude or the multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying, glory to God in the highest and on earth, peace, goodwill toward men.
So I wanted to be a little bit provocative, and so I asked the boys if the heavenly host was wrong. After all, Jesus's birth did not end war. It did not bring an end to violence. It did not bring an end to family conflict. So was peace on earth just words? You know? And the room was silent for a few minutes as the boys thought about this, or at least a few moments. And then one boy thoughtfully raised his hand and said, I think when it says, on earth, peace, it means that Jesus came to earth. And I love that answer. I think that is exactly right. And that's what we want to do in this episode is to give you our collective testimony from the Proclaim Peace podcast of Jesus as the Prince of Peace, that he exemplifies the way of peace. So thanks to our amazing producer, Christine Baird, we've put together a series of clips of stories and testimonials from guests throughout the season about their interactions and their stories and their testimonies of Jesus. So Merry Christmas to each one of you and I hope that you find peace in this Christmas season and that each one of us can be bearers and agents of peace on earth and goodwill toward all.
(02:56-05:36) Julie Rose: Peace, I think in its perfect form, is Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace. in his perfect love for all of us, his perfect grace, his perfect ability to see in all of us our divinity, our truest potential. And we know that when we are in that position of being able to embody that same perfect love for others, or as close as we imperfect humans can get, we eace is when all of us have that in our hearts.
So I think about the promise that Jesus gave to his disciples when he was talking about, you're going to have the Holy Ghost and I'm going to leave with you my peace. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you, not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. And I think about how I define peace, which is having the love of Jesus Christ, being able to see one another as purely, through the loving eyes that he would see them, extending that grace, and also seeing ourselves and having this lack of fear, okay? So that's how I'm defining peace. When we are in a state where we don't know if we can trust anyone, we feel like all we can trust is, and we've been misled, or we are susceptible to it, we are in that place where we begin to feel Fear leads us mostly to fear other people and to treat them poorly, which leads to strife and conflict and drives us further.
When you feel like there's nothing you can trust, then you're more and more likely to kind of retreat into your own little safe corner. And that makes us more likely to less likely to encounter people who see differently from us, more likely to assign broad labels and assumptions to those other people, which is antithetical to peace because we are unable in those moments to see them as fellow brothers and sisters of heavenly parents. We're unable to see their dignity and therefore we make choices that don't honor their dignity, whether that is in the way that we want our governments to behave toward people, whether that is in the way that we want policies or resources to be distributed. So I think being able to carefully engage with complicated information allows us to see the complexity in other people and always keep the love of Jesus Christ at the forefront of our lens. as we look out on the world.
(05:47-08:50) Thomas McConkie: One interpretation is that God loves the world so deeply that God completely gave of himself by way of the Son to take up a body. In other words, to sacralize all of matter, all of creation. Christianity is a story about the sacredness of matter and its critical role in growing up spirit. And this rhythm of contemplation to withdraw to touch into our source in order to go even deeper into the incarnation, to the aching particulars of our personal lives. We need to do that, you know. And if we're not resourced, if we don't take that time to retreat, to withdraw, we might always be advancing, always be doing something, but from a place where it's quite anemic, it's not resourced, it's doing it out of fear that, oh, if I let up on this, you know, it's all over for me, like we pointed out earlier.
So I think there's yet again this pair of opposites that's playing out in a way that can really bring incredible wholeness and vitality to our spiritual lives, just like a magnet needle points north. Christ's love is this omega point and it's drawing on us. And when I pause, and here's the pointing out, just the one, two baby steps that are actually gigantic steps in some ways, it's everything. But to like notice that like throughout the day, we tend to really get in our heads, like, you know, got a lot of energy, a lot of blood flow up here. And to like take a pause and like, it's as if we're like taking an elevator two stories down and just really feeling our awareness and presence in the heart. And at this point, you know, the heart, we can think of it almost like this antenna or this sensitive instrument that just immediately picks up this signal of Christ's love, this energy, that's this Omega point that's exalting us and drawing us all up into him. If I let go of any thoughts about that, but like really just feel that buoyancy, that exalting divine love working on me even now in the same way, like, you know, if we're bouncing around and holding a compass and like trying to find our way to a trail or out of the woods, like the compass needle can't stay put. But if we just slow down for a moment and let that compass needle, it just knows where north is. And I know in my heart that there's just something so awesome that's just working on me and all of us. And I have deep trust in that. And I find absolute, boundless peace in that knowing in my heart that that's true.
(08:50-10:16) Annie Waddoups: We don't always know the impact that we're having. As we're very real and using our own strengths and weaknesses, We don't know the impact that we're making always, and that's okay. And I think to your point about the ability to sort of adapt and grow and access, even in the face of imperfect people, imperfect qualities in ourselves, imperfect circumstances. I really love the Martin Luther King quote that is, the arc of history is long and bends toward justice. And I think I often revise that in my head with apologies to Martin Luther King. And that is that I've come to believe that the arc of eternity is long and it bends toward development facilitated by grace. And so what I love about this Jacob story is that really, it really articulates some of the things that I've noticed as I've studied, uh, in my work and as a believing member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that Our human systems, emotional, physical, cognitive, relational, all operate with this built-in level of grace for imperfect circumstances and people. And at the same time, with this sort of inherent setting towards growth and healing and connection that perfectly echoes that doctrine of Christ, the Book of Mormon echoes. So that's where it kind of comes together for me.
(10:19-13:32) Emile Kayitare: So it says, And it came to pass, in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites. And there were no quotations and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another, and they had all things commonly among them. Therefore, there were no rich and no poor, bound and free, but they were all made free and partakers of the heavenly gift. So I love so much verse three, it says how Lamanites and the Nephites were united and they became one.
And of course they were blessed, like if you read in verse five it says, and there were great and marvelous works wrote by the disciples of Jesus in so much that they did heal the sick and raise the dead and cause the lame to walk and the blind to receive their sight and the deaf of hear and all manner of miracles did they work among the children of men and in nothing did they work miracles servituer in the name of Jesus. So that is what I can see here in Rwanda that is happening today. because after genocide, so this new government introduced something new. I think maybe other countries or some people were expecting these patriotics to revenge, but instead of revenging, so they introduced something new. They said, OK, we are not going to revenge, so we are not going to become one. We don't even have tribes anymore, so we are all going to become Rwandese. We are going to teach forgiveness, reconciliation. Justice will also play a big role. For those who killed in genocide, they have to face justice. And they did it in the way that it helped people to become one.
After genocide, we didn't have anything. So the economy was so bad. So infrastructure were destroyed. We just didn't have anything. We were like starting from zero. Our country of Rwanda in 2022, if I remember well, it was ranked as the safest country in Africa. Kigali city is the cleanest city in Africa. Through that, we are able to bring so many tourists and our economy is going up so fast. Things are just going well. And I believe it's because we chose to be one. We chose what will bring peace.
(13:32-15:15) David Pulsipher: I'm tremendously grateful for the ordinance of the sacrament and for the opportunity to be renewed and in covenant with the Lord each Sabbath to leave there the things that have disturbed my peace, I guess, and hope to, I guess, bear a song away. And I find peace in the scriptures and in prayer. And it's peace that often passes understanding, not as the world gives. The world is not that capable of giving peace. In the world, you'll have trouble, right? There is war and contention and ugliness and despair on every side. But I find peace in in the power of an eternal perspective, I guess, and knowing that the Lord loves all people, that he has a plan for me and for each person, and that even though there is so much that is distressing, that I guess, like the principle of joy, you can find it even in the midst of trouble and turmoil. And that's miraculous to me.
(15:18-16:27) Michalyn Steele: But I find peace in Christ. I find peace in the Prince of Peace. And this week in particular, as my heart has been drawn out more towards Jesus Christ than maybe ever before, I have felt, I have found peace. And not only in my, kind of within, but I have I have experienced a sense of peace about the world, about the community, about the future. Christ brings hope and with that hope comes a very deep peace about the ultimate trajectory of our culture, of humanity, of where God is ultimately going to lead us as we allow him to. a great sense of peace about the future despite all of the challenges that we're facing as a world. And it comes entirely through the Savior.
(16:27-18:38) Sarah Perkins: Almost two years ago now, we lost custody of our kids because of a false child abuse allegation. And armed police officers and social workers from the Department of Children and Families came to our house at one in the morning. They had waited for the courts to close before they made the decision to remove so that they didn't have to go and get a warrant. They didn't have to appear in front of a judge to come and take the kids. And so they came without any sort of paperwork at one in the morning when it was most traumatizing for our family. And they took our kids at gunpoint, right? And so we filed a lawsuit, but it's really, really hard to sue departments. And so we filed a lawsuit against the individuals involved in the removal of our kids. And the goal of the lawsuit is to change precedent so that, like, the rule of law works better. The policemen who came that night were very dear friends of my neighbor at the time, who I was am so close to. We actually, the night that they were taking our kids, we called her at one in the morning and she came out and she watched for like two hours while they took our kids. And then she held me, I sobbed into her chest because I couldn't bear to watch my kids drive away.
And so she called, she found out about this lawsuit looking through headlines and she called me and she said, Like, I think that what happened to you was wrong, but this seems wrong, too. They were just doing their jobs. Like, they didn't want to be there. And, you know, I tried to respond to her, but I just assumed that this relationship that I cared so deeply about was over, that I would never hear from her again. And it was this really, really potent moment for me of recognizing, again, just the real people in front of you any time you're trying to make change and how you can't let that go. that's really, really vital in any part of this work, but particularly when you're drawing out injustice and trying to productively find a way forward through it. This last Christmas, she sent a package in the mail with Christmas gifts for my sons, and I was so touched. I was so touched that even across this really, really intractable divide, she was prioritizing a relationship.
(18:41-19:51) Jennifer Thomas: Increasingly, I'm hearing people of faith saying, essentially, well, I'm tossing up my hands. I just want Jesus to come. And they might. I might. I want Jesus to come. It would be lovely. It would be a fantastic solution to a lot of my personal messes that I would have to clean up, right? I really love the way that you've put that, Chad, as a reminder that if we really are going to model ourselves after Christ, he was not passive. He was not a person that just sat and waited for his father in heaven to intervene or a power higher than him to solve the problem. But he always moved towards the people that were suffering. He always moved to solve the problems that were in front of him. And if we really want him to come, but we want him to see us as his people when he does, that even if it feels futile or absurd, we have to be actively engaged in mitigating harm in solving problems, in resolving conflicts in our own lives. Otherwise, he won't recognize us. He'll be like, I don't even know who you are, you people sitting around waiting for me. I think the best way we can show that we love him is to be about his business.
(19:52-20:25) Patrick Mason: Well, and I think that's what it means. I think that is the theology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. What we say our mission is, is to prepare the world for the second coming of Christ, right? It's not to wait for the second coming of Christ. It's to prepare the world. There's always been this active sense of building Zion. Yes, of course, we all look forward to the time when Jesus will wipe away the tears, you know, from our eyes and so forth. But in the meantime, get busy, right? Build something, do peacemaking, peace building. These are active terms.
(20:25-22:59) Chad Ford: And it really reminds me of two Jesus stories where Jesus says he doesn't ask us to wait for him to do it, right? So he's on the shore of Galilee after he's crucified and resurrected, having a conversation with Peter and the apostles again, asking them, do they love these fish more than him? And I think that conversation is so interesting to me. It's one of my favorite parts of the New Testament because you've got to believe that Peter and others, and Elder Holland gave a great conference talk around this, believed that, look, our salvation is sort of secure now. We've spent three years with the Messiah. We've done all of these things. We're good. We'll just wait for Jesus to come again. We'll wait for the resurrection. We're good. And Jesus gives them a very different and pointed message about his expectation that they're not waiting, that they're actually doing.
And then there's this really cool moment in 3rd Nephi where Jesus gathers the twelve apostles around him when he appears to them in the Americas. He asked them what, they basically each get a wish or a gift from Jesus, and nine of them want to return to heaven, right? They want to be with Jesus. This encounter is so powerful. This being in the presence of Jesus is so amazing to them that all they can think about is can we speedily come to you to heaven. And then the other three Nephite apostles are actually ashamed, right? And Jesus understands, you know, the intentions of their heart, and they want to keep serving. They want to keep doing. They want to keep doing this work, and they want to stay on earth as long as possible to keep doing this work. And Jesus tells them that they are more blessed. because of their desire. It's great to want to be with Jesus. It's awesome to want to have the second coming in your life. Of course, we all look forward to that reintroduction back with our brother and our Savior. But more blessed are you, and he uses this term, what manner of men ought you to be even as I am? And he repeats that phrase in the next chapter when talking about these three Nephites. You will be even as I am. he says. And so that to me is that active peace building, that call from Jesus. Of course we rely on him. Of course we need him in our lives. But it's not about waiting.
(23:03-23:22) Patrick Mason: Thanks everybody for listening today. We really appreciate it. We just want to invite you to subscribe to the podcast and also to rate and review it. We love hearing feedback from listeners, so please email us at podcast@mweg.org. We also want to invite you to think about ways that you can make peace in your life this week. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.
(23:28-23:43) Jennifer Thomas: Thank you for listening to Proclaim Peace, a proud member of the Faith Matters Podcast Network. Faith Matters holds expansive conversations about the restored gospel to accompany individuals on their journey of faith. You can learn more about Faith Matters and check out our other shows at faithmatters.org.